# 2: How Could a Good God Allow Suffering?
The following is Herb Thomas’ discussion of Chapter 2:
Hello, thank you for participating in Shelflife. It is fun to read and discuss this book as a group.
Our Book is Tim Keller’s The Reason for God – Belief in an Age of Skepticism;
Tim Keller’s rankings of the seven biggest objections to the Christian faith: The following are my comments after reading Chapter 2
# 2: How Could a Good God Allow Suffering?
This is a problem that many non-Christians and Christians struggle with. It goes to the “Nature of God” [hear Graham Cooke describe it on YouTube].
This question causes people to reject God as being [1] un-loving or un-caring and thus cannot be trusted or [2] non-existent. Tim Keller discussed both reactions to this question.
[1] God is un-loving or un-caring and thus cannot be trusted.
I think the more compelling and widespread objection to God allowing Evil and Suffering to continue is by persons who have been severely and deeply hurt or humiliated by another human being, especially if they were of an innocent age to protect themselves: Their questions to God are: I could not protect myself and I was abused against my will. Where were you, God? If you loved me, why did you not stop this evil from happening to me? How can I trust that you love me when you failed to protect me when I needed you the most? A loving God would not have allowed this abuse to happen to me and definitely would not have allowed it to continue to happen to me. You may love other people but you sure do not love me. What’s worse is I’m not even sure that you care what happens to me. There is no way I am going to trust in you and I am so angry with you I refuse to believe in you.
There are many people who question the “nature of God” as not being good, maybe even bad or possibly just doesn’t care. God proved it to them by not showing up when needed the most. How can God be counted on or trusted in the future?
The reaction against God by non-Christian victims is rejection. The reaction against God by Christian victims is distrust and fear (God is the “only game in town” so I dare not offend him because he made take something cherished away from me, like my child). It is emotional and intense. They could be very intelligent and use their intellect/scientific methods in their jobs but summarily reject God purely on emotional response to their pain. They are willing to be “intellectually dishonest” when it comes to God and refuse to examine the proofs of his claims.
Remember that God’s offense is that he “allows” Evil and Suffering. The fact is he is not to blame – he did not cause Evil – Satan caused Evil. How? God gave Man the ability to choice to allow Man the freedom to prove through his choices that Man loved God – rather than being a puppet like Pinocchio. Satan talked Man into a Sinful Choice that introduced Sin into the world and “survival of the fittest” – the “strong devour the weak” Thereafter, the weak and innocent continually suffered pain. God loved Man so much that God had a Rescue Plan. He could have terminated the race of Man but the Rescue Plan was to redeem or cleanse them. The pure blood of Jesus, God’s Son, was shed to absorb all the Evil and Suffering and cleanse us from our sin and heal us from our pain. but Man had to make the correct choice this time and accept redemption through Jesus’ sacrifice. The Rescue Plan proves that God loves us because he will reverse the pain caused by Evil. Why? It is his nature to Love his children. The Rescue Plan proves that God can be trusted because he is there to rescue you from the ultimate Pain and Suffering – eternal Hell – separation from all love, beauty, purity, goodness, kindness, joy, comfort, and light for eternity.
Tim Keller says “ditto” because he said that God is not ambivalent against Evil and Suffering but is aggressively pursuing a Rescue Mission of by sending Jesus Christ to pay for all the Evil and Sins of this earth so that some day evil and suffering will end without having to terminate the human race to do it. God had his Son experience pain and suffering, just like you, and pay the penalty all sin for all times by dying on the Cross. Through his Resurrection, there will not be just a repair of your sufferings but a restoration will occur in you – “every horrible thing that ever happened will not only be undone and repaired but will in some way make the eventual glory and joy greater” – all things will be made NEW. “Resurrection …promises that we will get the life we most longed for, but it will be an infinitely more glorious world than if there had never been the need for bravery, endurance, sacrifice, or salvation”.
The ministries, like Someone Cares (abortion), Shelter From the Storm (sexual abuse) Celebrate Recovery (destructive habits) Reengage (destructive habits in marriage) try to demonstrate that God’s true nature is to love you, that he has always loved you and been with you even in your pain, that he has brought everything good into your life, that he can heal your wounds and hurts, that he can restore broken relationships through the power of his love, that he can be trusted, that he can be counted on to be with you, that he will ultimately restore you.
[2] God is non-existent.
Philosopher J.L. Mackie made the case against God: “If a good and powerful God exists, he would not allow pointless evil, but because there is much unjust able, pointless evil in the world, the traditional good and powerful God could not exist.” God does not exist because God [by definition] could not allow Evil and Suffering to exist [because he would prevent them from existing] based upon their definition that God is just and loving. The basis for non-existence of God is Logic. The existence of Evil disproves the existence of God. God could not exist because God allows terrible suffering therefore either God is all-powerful but not good enough to end Evil and Suffering or God is All-good but not powerful enough to end Evil and Suffering – implying that if God existed he would be compelled by his nature to end Evil and Suffering and since Evil and Suffering exists then God does not. Tim Keller demonstrates that this logic is faulty and “bankrupt”. It is based upon a false assumption that if there was a good reason that God allows suffering then their minds would be able to think of it. It is illogical that not believing in the existence of God will make Evil and Suffering go away. But true logic says that just because you cannot see a good reason why God might allow suffering does not mean that there cannot be one. He also said that the experiences of people show good reasons for at least some of the tragedy and pain with Joseph’s life as an example.
So, here are some questions to help keep this discussion going:
1. Do you have any opinions about these subjects?
2. If so, please submit a response and let us hear from you.
3. If you do not wish to comment, please let us know you are reading the book and participating in the forum by answering the Roll Call – submit a response and insert the work “Here” just as your teachers used to do. It encourages us. Thanks.
~Herb Thomas
3 responses so far
Here. A few points, as I have little time and require much brevity.
First, I would point the interested to several good works regarding God’s answer to Evil and Suffering. Both Bishop N.T. Wright’s “Evil and the Justice of God” and “Surprised by Hope” are written for the popular audience and incredibly readable while not compromising on necessary depth and poignance. Additionally, I would highly recommend “God’s Companions: Reimagining Christian Ethics” by the great Rev. Canon Dr. Samuel Wells.
It is imperative, I believe, to also understand Sin and Evil in relation to God and Creation; in that, Evil is privation of the good. Not too long ago I wrote about this, so I will direct you to here: http://www.anthologicalprolegomena.com/2009/08/evil-defined-as-privation-of-good.html
Thirdly, it is so important t0 heavily consider Christ’s role as the Suffering Servant, which really found feet in Judaic (and then subsequently Christian) theology through the prophet Isaiah. While skeptics indeed argue that God, if existent, is far and aloof, Christianity confesses that through Christ, God came to earth and tabernacled with us – yet, He was not just among us in proximity, but He took on flesh and became one of us. The glorification of the Christ did not come immediately as some majestic ruling king descending from the clouds without struggle. No. The path to glory lead straight through the nails of the cross, through suffering. Furthermore, innocent suffering (to somewhat relate to Herb’s point).
I believe the author of Hebrews says it best:
“Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, we must get rid of every weight and the sin that clings so closely, and run with endurance the race set out for us, keeping our eyes fixed on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of our faith. For the joy set out for him He endured the cross, disregarding its shame, and has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of God. Think of him who endured such opposition against himself by sinners, so that you may not grow weary in your souls and give up.”
Our God is one who brings life out of death.
Lastly, I believe a proper theology and participation regarding the sacraments, the Eucharist in particular, greatly aids the Christian during this present age, an era in which we are called and enabled to share in God’s redemption and renewing within a groaning world as we await His kingdom to come to earth in its fullness. For this, I will simply turn to Dr. Wells and beseech his voice to be heard on the matter.
[Reply]
Matthew, I really enjoyed reading your article “Evil Defined as Privation of the Good” 8/3/09 on your website at anthologicalprolegomena.com especially “Satan himself, the once great Lucifer, archangel of light, is but a wafer of his former glory. Satan, like Gollum, like Adam and Eve, were all guilty in the same mannar. Instead of receiving in love what was given to them, they tried to possess it all. Sin, in this light, manifests itself in the creature as a sort of grasping, not accepting what is given to us as a gift from the Creator. As such, evil turns us away from God and towards self pursuit, casting us into an abyss of self destruction. Evil then is a perversion both of the divinely created substance and of the human heart desiring such object. Influence, wine, shelter, love, etc. All are gracious gifts from God too often abused by a wicked heart. The consequence of such abuse is murder, greed, and selfishness, let alone war, global debt, and environmental irresponsibility. Evil as privation of the good is evident not only in genocide and tyranny, but in all those we know whose lives have been partially destroyed, even in small ways, eaten away through their turing away from God and neighbor and instead towards self. We too know this in ourselves.” Also thank you for referencing books on the subject by Bishop N.T. Wright and the great Rev. Canon Dr. Samuel Wells. You are a wealth of information and make some excellent points on Christ’s role as the Suffering Servant. Thank you for your contribution to this blog. Herb
[Reply]
Herb,
Your kind words are encouraging. Thank you.
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