Words from Wags

Friends,

Many of you heard our president’s recent remarks on homosexuality, and some of you may have been at Watermark yesterday when I shared how we should respond as believers.  You can also check out my comments here.

In addition, I received an email this week with some very helpful resources.  Give this a read and be equipped!

From: Xxxxx Xxxxxx

Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2012 8:32 PM

To: pastoraloffice
Subject: Fw: TGC: How I Wish the Homosexuality Debate Would Go

Todd,

I’ve debated for several weeks whether or not to seek your guidance on a matter that is creating  a lot of division in my family.  I was raised in what I considered to be a strong Christian family.  Approximately 15 years ago my little brother shocked the whole family when he revealed that he was gay.  He had kept the secret for several years and had sought “Christian” counseling for a few years prior to his declaration.  At the time, he told us all that he was ashamed of his sin and had done everything possible to try to fight it.  He recognized homosexuality as a sin and told us that he was trying to figure out a way to abstain from ever acting on these feelings (we later found out that he had already been in previous hidden relationships).

Sadly, after many years of counseling and soul searching, he has reconciled his sin as acceptable to God has recently joined a church (one of the growing many) that has twisted the Gospel into convincing homosexuals that God has somehow “changed” and believes they can continue in their lifestyles as long as they are married or in “committed” relationships in states where gay marriage is banned.  Sadly, two of my three siblings have also Biblically reconciled this lifestyle as acceptable to God and are now encouraging him to pursue this lifestyle in an effort to find a partner he can spend his life with.

We have been exchanging emails back and forth for several weeks, but the conversations always end in the same result below.  I believe that the commentary that my little brother’s best friend (a strong believer) posted below was perfectly stated.  I’m convinced that the rebuttal from my brother is coming from his pastor and other gay Christian friends.

I would love to get your thoughts on the statement below where he makes the assumption that God has “evolved”, as evidence of his grieving over creating mankind in Genesis.  My other brother has echoed this same sentiment and questions Xxxxx’s multiple references to sexual deviance as being out of touch with today’s homosexuals.  Most of my siblings believe that I am not sensitive to my brother’s natural, “God given” tendencies and just want him to be lonely his whole life.  This couldn’t be further from the truth as I deeply love my brother and just want God’s best for his life.

Thank you for your prayers and your wisdom!

Xxxxx

Email chain between Xxxxx, his brother, and another friend.

 From: Friend of Xxxxx and Xxxxx’s brother

Subject: TGC: How I Wish the Homosexuality Debate Would Go

This is a great article on how the writer wishes a conversation would go between a talk show host and evangelical pastor on gay marriage.

By the way, I highly recommend www.thegospelcoalition.org — tons of consistently great content there, articles, short blog posts, video and audio.

http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2011/10/18/how-i-wish-the-homosexuality-debate-would-go/

From: Xxxxx’s Brother
Subject: Re: TGC: How I Wish the Homosexuality Debate Would Go

There’s another aspect of this argument that goes undiscussed…  Actions are not sins merely for the sake of being sins… When we sin, we hurt ourselves and those around us.. They are self-destructive and lead to estrangement between God and the sinner…  We can see explicitly what it does to the adulterer, to the thief, to the murderer, to the liar, to the prostitute.. To a lesser degree, we see what it does to those who fornicate… Obviously, there are many who have had sex before marriage, whose marriages have ended up working out and being “fruitful.”

For the homosexual, however, there has never been an opportunity to marry, so they are always trapped in a perpetual state of sin, only when they “act out” of course.  Because of this, they wrap their identities around their sexuality which leads to all sorts of debauchery and wickedness— the worst of which is a complete abandonment of spirituality-  belief in or closeness with God.  

 This brings us to the question as to whether homosexuality is innate or developmental.  Everyone knows my struggle in this regard.  My views have changed.  Some might say my views  evolved.  Some might say they’ve devolved.  Honestly though, I really don’t care anymore what people think.  I know where I stand at this moment in my life, and I feel closer to God then ever before.  I may have a completely different view 10 years from now, I may not.  I just ask God to guide me however He can 

I believe God changes in relationship to us.  The core of God never changes— pure and unconditional love.  We see proof of this when God grieved that he had made man in the Old Testament.  I’m being borderline heretical right now, and digging into this question is for another time… But… 

I believe gay people, particularly Christian gay people, have matured— and I believe God’s relationship toward the homosexual condition has perhaps changed.   

I have a friend named Xxxx— he happens to be engaged to a man.  I know that sounds strange and probably very uncomfortable to hear, but he is one of the most loving, well rounded individuals I’ve ever met.  Unlike most gays, he never grew up with this stigma that homosexuality is wrong or unnatural.  In fact, his parents told him he was gay before he told them.  And they made it very clear that they had no problem with it and they loved him as much as their other children.  As a result, he never went through a period of self hatred… Unlike the vast majority of gays I know.

He can’t relate to his partner’s or my struggle with being gay.  It’s completely foreign to him…  

People like to believe that all of the debauchery and sadness and hyper-sexuality and promiscuity is a result of being gay.  But I believe it’s a result of self-hatred.  I’ve seen it in too many people.  

I know most Christians will never believe that sexual union between two people of the same gender is condoned by God — married or unmarried.  The scriptures are clear that the homosexual behavior at the time of Paul was deviant and evil.  But homosexuality at that time  was often combined in Pagan ritual.  It was often an older man and a submissive boy.  It was prostitutes… And so on…

 But homosexual people today are much different then they were back then.  

God is complex— we will never understand His mind while we are here on this earth.  Only He can see what lies at the core of all human behavior.  

What I’m trying to get across is…

Why not grant homosexuals the right to marry so that they don’t have to live in sin?  Homosexuality will never go away.  More and more people know someone or have a family member who is gay.  Don’t you want them to have the same rights to be as happy as you are?  

 Don’t you believe God is loving and that perhaps He approves of certain homosexual relationships?

The friends referenced above are two of the most wonderful people I know.  And their relationship is pure.  One of them became a Christian recently.   

Instead of intellectualizing everything and making Biblical views black or white, let’s take a look at the face of these relationships that are so condemned.  God might bring ease to your minds.

From: pastoraloffice
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 8:33 AM
To: Xxxxx Xxxxxx
Cc: Johnny Hawkins
Subject: RE: TGC: How I Wish the Homosexuality Debate Would Go

Xxxxx…glad you are asking and thanks for reaching out.  Though I understand that your question is primarily about the innate nature of God and how He or His character doesn’t change, I’d also love to offer you a resource that I think would be most helpful to you.  Below is the link to a message I did on homosexuality in 2004.  If you’ve never listened, this may be helpful to you as you continue to speak truth to your family.

http://www.watermark.org/media/homosexuality-and-same-sex-marriage-an-apology-an-answer-an-assignment/457/

I would agree with you that God’s convictions don’t change…in fact, Numbers 23:19 is clear in saying this.  Look it up and be encouraged! I am as saddened as you are by man’s attempts to define God based on their own finite understanding.  Does God deeply love your brother and others in his lifestyle?  Absolutely.  Is He surprised by his choices? No, and He is absolutely grieved by the self-inflicting pain that can be caused.

Also…to continue to dive into whether these tendencies are “God-given”, I’d encourage you to check out Ricky Chellette’s ministry at livehope.org.  You can also see some of what he has taught at Watermark here:

http://www.watermark.org/media/homosexuality-why-isnt-this-taught-warning-explicit-content/1027/

One last suggestion, and that is to continue to bring these sorts of issues to your consistent community around you so that they can be a source of encouragement for you, help you research these questions, and pray for your family.  I’m looping in Johnny Hawkins here, who is the director over your community group, as I know he would love to jump into the conversation.

For the record, I thought the hypothetical interview in the link was great.  Praying for you and your family, and grateful with you for Hebrews 13:8!

Todd

214-239-8809

www.twitter.com/wordsfromwags

pastoraloffice@watermark.org

www.watermark.org

More to come on this later, but for now I wanted to post a question I got from a Watermark member asking about voting for candidates with a different worldview/faith system than evangelicals.  Check out the following exchange and the links that accompany it.  Hope you get to listen to them with my friend…and remember, our hope is never in who we vote for but ONLY in WHO we follow.  That being said…I not only HOPE you vote, but would commend you to Scripture that commands us to actively participate in our society as salt and light.  Salt and light ought to show up everywhere it can, and that includes the voting booth where we get to speak into the kind of leaders we want to set the course, or correct the course of our land.

Jump in.

From: Xxxxx Xxxxxx
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 7:46 PM
To: pastoraloffice
Subject: Question

Todd,

Sorry to bug you with a random question about politics. Our community group was having a discussion about whether or not it was ok to throw your support behind a candidate, running for office, whom is not a believer. The focus was on Mitt Romney who I believe is Mormon?

Every year since I have turned eighteen I have voted, and have even convinced others to vote. I am convinced that not voting is a vote. As Christ followers would it be wrong for us to vote for a candidate who does not believe in our God?

Thank you so much for your time,

Xxxxx Xxxxxx

From: pastoraloffice
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 10:14 AM
To: Xxxxx Xxxxxx
Subject: RE: Question

Xxxxx…love your passion to elect Godly men and women into our country’s leadership positions.  I have actually spoken about this topic several times at Watermark, and I think you would love going back and listening to those messages…they should answer your question and continually be informative on what Scripture has to say about these issues.

I’ve included some links below…I would listen in the order I have linked them.  Hope these are helpful!

http://www.watermark.org/media/believers-and-their-government-what-governs-our-usefulness-in-it/816/

http://www.watermark.org/media/the-wolf-at-the-door-and-whose-job-it-is-to-take-him-on/1725/

http://www.watermark.org/media/the-wall-of-bronze-and-whose-job-it-is-to-be-it/1729/

http://www.watermark.org/media/breaking-down-the-wall-of-our-ineffectiveness-in-serving-the-state/1274/

Todd Wagner| pastoraloffice@watermark.org

www.twitter.com/wordsfromwags

www.watermark.org

214.239.8809

Friends,

I had another great email exchange recently that I wanted to share with you all. Hope this is a source of encouragement and training for us all as we seek to commune with God as we “draw near with confidence to the throne of grace” (Hebrews 4:16)!

From: Xxxx Xxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 11:53 AM
To: pastoraloffice
Subject: faith and prayer

Today’s Journey wrapped around “And Jesus answered saying to them, “Have faith in God. Truly I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be taken up and cast into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that what he says is going to happen, it will be granted him.” ” (Mark 11:22-23)

Matthew 18:18, 19 Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.  Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, IT SHALL BE DONE for them by My Father who is in heaven.

So my question is this…I have NO problem whatsoever believing that God CAN do anything! Anything. What I struggle with is can we believe He WILL do anything? I mean, according to scripture, it seems that we can believe that He will. But, what about the person for whom we stood in faith that God would heal their cancer this side of heaven and died anyway. Was that because I doubted? Or was it just part of God’s plan? I trust Him for His plan. I may not like. I may pitch a fit at first, but my heart comes around to knowing how great His love is. He is sovereign. I trust Him wholeheartedly, even though I may be caught off guard at first and lose my balance.

Do these verses literally mean that I can pray and believe that another’s heart WILL be changed to line up with God’s Word? Proverbs 21:1 says, ‘The king’s heart is like channels of water in the hands of the Lord. He turns it wherever He will.”

If I’m not seeing results, is it because of doubt? God says He is not a liar and that His Word will not return void. I don’t believe that it is idealistic to think that it is that simple. Its either Truth or its not. I have to remind myself that what I see with my mortal eye isn’t always as it appears. Maybe, the other factor is that it isn’t His timing. Truth be told, I may never see the answer to my prayer this side of heaven. But that doesn’t mean the ‘WILL” didn’t happen. Then my mind goes back to the example ‘what about the person for whom we prayed healing this side of heaven and it didn’t happen? Is it because I doubted? Then, the big question becomes how do I change the doubt?

What is your input?

From: pastoraloffice
Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 5:02 PM
To: Xxxx Xxxxxx
Subject: RE: faith and prayer

Xxxx…great questions about prayer.  For starters, I’d love for you to check out a series I did several years ago here called Vacate…the link is below, and I think it will be helpful.  Also linked below is a message in an apologetics series I did, responding to critics who ask the question, “Why should I waste my time praying when God knows what He’s going to do already?”

http://www.watermark.org/media/the-foundation-for-prayer-the-real-thee-talking-with-the-real-thou/859/

http://www.watermark.org/media/if-god-already-knows-what-hes-going-to-do-why-should-i-waste-my-time-trying-to-talk-to-him/295/

You are correct in saying that God CAN do anything.  And He loves His people enough to listen to our hearts/requests/want to spend time with us in prayer.  But His sovereign plan to glorify Himself is of His utmost concern as that is in everyone’s best interest…to know and understand who this God is that we are praying to.

If you feel that you aren’t seeing “results”, I would challenge you with two things: 1) to change your focus of prayer from results to communion with God; 2) remember that, as you have referenced, God’s ways are higher than our ways (Isaiah 55:8) and there are always multiple reasons that He may not choose to honor requests that we present to Him.  Faith pleases God (Hebrews 11:6) but it is not a force which obligates Him.  He is sovereign, good and wise.  I love this statement by Spurgeon: “God is too good to be unkind. He is too wise to be confused. If I cannot trace His hand, I can always trust His heart.”

Keep at it…would love to see you processing my response/the messages & Scripture above with your community group and see what they think/how they can continue to encourage you as well in this area.

I look forward to hearing how the messages and the conversation with your community helped you!

Psalm 46:10,

Todd Wagner| pastoraloffice@watermark.org
www.twitter.com/wordsfromwags
www.watermark.org
214.239.8809

Our passionate group of friends at Leadership Network are always combing the church world, assessing what is going on and then trying to figure out what the best way for them to focus on the “next thing” in terms of the organizations offerings. Typically their “what’s next” is driven by the priorities, challenges, opportunities and strengths of those they want to assist so they asked a number of church leaders, myself among them, if they could bullet out some quick answers to two questions.

I thought I would share my answers with you so you could share in thanking the Lord with me for His grace on us as well as join me in praying that we would be effective in the days and opportunities ahead.

Here were the questions:

1. What are you most excited about at your church? What is going on really well?

2. What are two or three challenges/opportunities that you have to figure out solutions for over the next 12-36 months?

Below are my answers.  I hope they encourage all of my Watermark friends out there.

What are you most excited about at your church? What is going really well?

1. I’m excited that we continue to stay on mission. I think we have met/are meeting the challenge of moving from a start-up/entrepreneurial/edgy church to an established church with a great physical plant. While we look like we have “been around forever” from the outsider’s eye, I think the call, the commitment, the passion, and the heart of what we wanted to be are thriving as much as ever. We still measure our success by our ability to be and make disciples and we are just as committed as ever to be biblical and authentic rather than big and impressive.

2. We are completely grateful for and intentional about the culture we have been able to create and maintain for our current staff and core leadership. Deep commitment, high passion, authentic beyond the buzzword, deep trust, and high professional/relational/spiritual trust are rampant.

3. I’m also grateful for the fact that we continue to develop, attract and deploy leaders. I keep hearing others say that leadership development is a major area of struggle/concern for their body….while we always want to do better, I am thrilled that Watermark is being used by God to discover, develop, and deploy leaders (Christ-followers, servant leaders, eternally-minded, culturally  relevant, and engaged leaders) on a tremendous scale.

4. I am excited about the things we have developed/are developing that will allow us to be more useful to other communities that desire to effectively and courageously be salt and light amidst the opportunities of their complex, continually changing, and challenging communities, countries, and world.

Some of these include:

ReEngage: A revolutionary way to serve marriages across a broad spectrum of health, develop leaders, reduce pastoral care issues, give couples a chance to lead and minister together, restore the church community to its intended place of care, help and restoration. We say whether your marriage needs to be REIGNITED or is in need of a complete RESURRECTION, REENGAGE is a safe place for couples to RECONNECT. The truth is that ReEngage is an effective place where communities of believers care for one another, disciple one another, admonish, encourage and help one another with great patience and instruction. Marriages are helped and healed, the lost are reached, hope is restored, and discipleship happens.

Re:generation: Re:gen is our recovery ministry. We were willing and grateful partners with Celebrate Recovery for years and saw the Lord do great things through our partnership. But from the beginning there were some areas where we did things differently than they preferred (with the knowledge and understanding) while still partnering with them. However the asked us not to mentor/help/teach other churches b/c of these differences. After years of careful conversation with our friends at CR we determined the best way for us to continue impacting our community and serve churches across the world was to develop our own curriculum and model. It has proven extremely effective and life-giving, and we look forward to sharing this material/strategy with others so they can serve the recovery community well.

Merge: Our tremendous pre-marital ministry and strategy.

Foundation Groups: Hundreds of new marriages get off to a great start as a result of these communities and curriculum.

The Journey: An innovative and effective tool that allows our body to interact daily over God’s word. It reduces a tremendous increase in Bible intake across our body, develops unity and intimacy among our large body, and is easily transferable to another community of faith.

Porch: One of the most effective Young Adult communities in the country producing transformed lives, healthy Christ-followers, future leaders, and a deep connection with this demographic within the larger church.

Other areas of strength and gladness not mentinoed:    (a) Annual spiritual advancement/re-covenanting efforts that keep vision and focus alive before core members.  (b) Equipping days/great questions classes/counterpoint lunches.  (c) On-line broadcast of complete services.  (d) Facility development, design and completion.

What are the two or three challenges/opportunities that you have to figure out solutions for over the next 12-36 months?

1. Number one here will always be maintaining, improving, focusing excellence and commitment to the first three “successes” above.
2. Effective launch and development of Watermark satellite campuses.
3. We are working on increasing our intentional recruitment and development strategy for future vocational ministry leaders. Something that will supplement or potentially even replace the current models as the preferred place for church leadership (as opposed to academic/professorial/research) training.

Whenever someone wants to spend time with me, I almost ALWAYS ask them who they are already running with and what their specific questions are.  I LOVE getting with groups, and frequently “demand” that any individual who asks to meet with me bring with them 3-5 others who they “run” with or want to influence themselves.  I do this for several reasons:

1. It multiplies my time.
2. Life change happens best in the context of relationships.
3. It keeps the conversation going and multiplies the questions.
4. It removes the “excitement” of getting to be “the guy” who got some time with “the guy”.
5. It minimizes any confusion that might come in something I said because only one set of ears heard it. (Of course, the opposite is also true. My stupidity could be confirmed by the masses and I’m willing to take that risk.  I have had a lot more trouble with the former than the latter.  People who are “advice seeking” love to isolate their counselors so they are the sole arbiter/interpreter of what they heard from their “multitude” of counselors.  Meeting with 10 different “counselors” one at a time is infinitely worse than meeting with the 10 of them together, and since it is hard to get 10 counselors together at once the next best thing is to have your community with you when you meet with any counselor.)
6. It produces immediate accountability if something is shared that needs to be acted on.
7. Nothing else comes to mind, but 7 is the perfect number, and I wanted to put something that looks like I had perfect thoughts on this.

The other thing I almost always share with people, and ask from them, is for them to come with questions. The majority of the time, I ask for the questions, or at least a good representation of what the main question(s) are going to be, in advance.  I know from experience that if folks really have questions, firing them right back is NO problem.  If, however, they are a victim of the “if I can just get a meal/cup of coffee with ‘the guy’ then my life will change, my dating life will pick up, my career will advance, I will become more popular and Jesus will be able to use me more” mentality, I sometimes don’t hear back.

So read the below, use the above, and keep seeking Jesus with all your heart.

Jesus is available, is worth telling others you know Him personally and you can spend all the time alone with Him you want.

Proverbs 4:7

Five Ways to Find a Mentor

By Michael Hyatt (This is a guest post by Daniel Darling. He is the Senior Pastor of Gages Lake Bible Church in the northwest suburbs of Chicago and is the author of iFaith, Connecting with God in the 21st Century. You can read his blog or follow him on Twitter. If you want to guest post on this blog, check out the guidelines here.)

The value of a mentor cannot be overestimated. A mentor is someone who is a few laps ahead of you in an area of life where you wish to find success. More than formal training, more than a book or a seminar, a good mentor brings his or her personal experience to bear on your life in a way that may shape it forever.

But how to find one? It’s actually easier than you think. Here are five ways to find a mentor:

1. Don’t Start with Seth Godin or Max Lucado. Yes, we’d all love to have someone at the top of our profession mentor us. But not only is this unrealistic, it’s also unhelpful. Chances are that the advice of someone at the very top would be intimidating or unhelpful to you at your current pace of life. Instead, look for someone a few levels ahead of you in your chosen field. Someone accessible to you. There is a pastor in my community whose church is medium-sized, but not mega. Since I pastor a small church, he’s perfect for me and has the time.
2. Attend trade functions or gatherings in your community. As a pastor, I regularly attend pastor’s gatherings in our area. I’ve also done this in the Christian publishing field. Simply attending and meeting new people has led to many rich mentoring relationships. If you stay inside your office your entire life, you’ll never experience the opportunity to be enriched by the wisdom of others.
3. Make friendships through simple conversation. You don’t find a mentor by asking someone, “Can you be my mentor?” That’s a bit awkward and may seem to put a heavy burden on someone who doesn’t know you very well. Instead, meet people, develop relationships through conversation and let natural human interaction be your guide.
4. Follow up with a request to meet again, one-on-one. If you’ve gotten to know someone you think you can learn from, get his contact information and ask him something like, “Hey, I’d love to sit for coffee and pick your brain on _______.” This is the intentional part of finding a mentor. I’ve done this a number of times both with pastors and with writers and have found them eager to share what they know about their chosen field.
5. Ask questions. When you do meet for coffee, pepper the mentor with questions and then sit back and listen. Ask him questions like, “How did you get into this field?” “What have you learned over the years?” “What do you think of this idea?” Don’t try to wow him with all you’ve done. You’re there to learn from his success.

Mentoring relationships are valuable . . . and they aren’t complicated. They are simply friendships which have the potential to help shape your future.

Oh, and a bonus tip: pick up the tab. The wisdom you gain is well worth the price of a latte.